Conversation 12: Interview with Jan Witthuhn

2007-01-25 Jan Witthuhn (34:58 mp3)

Today marks the beginning of a new CASTLE blog. We're calling it CASTLE Conversations (www.castleconversations.org). The idea is that we'll interview interesting people on topics related to technology and/or school leadership and then make those interviews freely available through this blog.

We kick off this initiative with an interview of Dr. Jan Witthuhn, Superintendent of the Mounds View (MN) Public Schools. Jan is widely respected for her data-driven decision-making acumen and we think you will find her insights informative as you work to facilitate data-driven educational concepts in your own school organization. Comments about our interview with Jan are not only welcome but encouraged.

Happy listening!

Comments

[John Alberts]

I came across the castle conversations as I was on the dangerously irrelevant site. I just finished listening to the podcast and found it fantastic. This is a great idea! I particularly enjoyed hearing from someone who has had such a long experience with DDDM. It was in many ways reassuring as I reflect on what we are attempting to do here in Austin; we are at least on the right track in many regards. It is especially interesting to note how integrated the practice has become in their district. I passed it on to a number of our administrators.
I will be looking forward to listening to future editions. Thanks for providing this resource.

[Scott McLeod]

SEE BELOW. THIS WAS SENT TO ME BUT ANONYMITY WAS REQUESTED -- SCOTT

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I had some thoughts on the CASTLE talk, but I'd prefer to be anonymous. You can post this, just leave my name off:

It was a very interesting CASTLE talk on data-driven decision making with Jan Witthuhn. This is the core of what is being done at my school and district, but rather than implementing it in the collaborative way, it’s being implemented punitively. I like how Jan discussed looking for the teachers that were good with RSP students, and supporting them.

Let me start by saying that I’ve looked at the state standards in Minnesota for fifth grade and I wish I worked in your state. I don’t mean I wish I worked at Mounds View, which I infer from Jan’s comments is middle-class, and has supportive parents, but I think I could do more even with my students (mostly at Basic, mostly ELLs, mostly poor) if the standards in my state were more developmentally appropriate. That is the first requirement that would make data-driven decision making work well: are the standards you are working towards appropriate? If it isn’t, then you are tempted to teach to the test, and try to throw the standards at the students in hopes that something will stick (and you’ll get a Basic or Below Basic) even though they are not ready for the material. I’m curious, what is the percentile for Proficient in Minnesota. It’s about 66% in my state, and it’s my understanding the cut-off for Proficient in some other states is 50%.

Next, implementation requires safety for the teachers. Will there be retaliation? Will there be finger pointing? Will questions and dissenting views be heard, and considered (if not implemented)? I won’t go into the ugly details of what is happening at my site, but I think you get the idea from these questions.

Last, how will the data be used (or misused)? Will it inform instruction, or will games be played with numbers? There is a growing movement in PI schools towards tracking of students, with my own school practicing this. The students have be aggregated into classes with most of the Advanced and Proficient students in one class, the other students further segregated into a variety of largely homogeneous groupings with usually one class per grade-level of all Below Basic, and Far Below Basic. There is one 5/6 class of 33 that had 17 students getting RSP services in one class. That barely qualifies as full inclusion IMHO. There was little support given to that teacher, and the assignment to that class was made pretty much to punish her for her test scores.

Why is this being done? We had parent pulling out their GATE kids from the school, so that was causing our numbers to drop. But the real crux of the matter is that AYP just counts that we have 36% (its up this year) at Proficient, so in effect, it doesn’t matter what happens with those BB and FBB kids, we just need to make sure we meet our benchmark with the Proficient/Advanced students.

[Janna Schwimmer]

Dear Anonymous,

I have been apart of data decision making in schools since 1992. I have worked with 4 schools in very different places in the world. In each setting, teachers felt concern in the beginnings of this movement toward continual change. Some also described their experinces as "punitive." However, the real issue is dealing with the new mindset that comes with working through curriculum that has a continually changing spiral. Once teachers come to the realization that each year they will teach directly to what students need then and only then will they free themselves from the past practices (teaching the same way, same patterns every year).

In all settings, I found teachers who learned to be real team players because they relied on each other to balance the strengths and weaknesses in the grade levels. The isolation mindset departed. It was a painful process for many teachers who had most of their career behind them. However, they pulled through. Data driven instruction forces a teacher to teach, and move through the curriculum differently. It is fast paced through much of the year. Once the final benchmark scores are in the pace tends to slow down.

Remember that data is the monitoring of a child's learning growth and pace of learning over time. A teacher would literally have to do no teaching for the growth to stop or to slide. The growth will be evident. I have not seen anyone fail or lose a contract over test scores in my experiences.

This is a mindset shift. Take it for what it is...the administration is also facing the change.

JS

[Scott Elias]

Scott -

Great podcast! I posted some personal reflections at my blog: http://snipurl.com/18byd

Looking forward to listening to #2!!

-- Scott